The Spirit of prophecy says, ” False teachers may appear to be very zealous for the work of God, and may expend means to bring their theories before the world and the church; but as they mingle error with truth, their message is one of deception, and will lead souls into false paths. They are to be met and opposed, not because they are bad men, but because they are teachers of false hood and are endeavoring to put upon falsehood the stamp of truth (Test. to Ministers, p.55)
Last week we concluded our two-part post on the Seven Seals of Revelation and the heavenly judgment of chapters 4 to 6. As I have mentioned many times, the posts we do here are guided by our walk with the Lord. Our path was led the last two weeks to look at the fore-mentioned studies because our own church was and is conducting a Revelation study.
During Sabbath service a couple of weeks ago, a church friend of mine came up and said, “What do you think of our Revelation studies?” I replied , “It’s a deep subject but I listening.” She then began to speak of the Revelation YouTube studies that a SDA pastor named Stephen Bohr has made. Her eyes glowed as she spoke very highly of him and told me to watch them if I could.
Later during the week I sent her part 1 of the Rev. posts we just made. She called me a few days later, again glowing, however this time it was about the post I sent her. She commented that the post and Mr. Bohr were very much alike in their teaching except the 24 Elders. So I decided to inquire about what his teachings were on the Elders.
Realizing that my friend knows very little about the “Elijah to come” that came to our church to restore all things (truth), I wanted to try to show her where the truth and the falsehood existed between the two teachers, Mr. Bohr and brother Houteff.
I was not to fail. The “Spirit of Truth” guided and I subsequently made a report for her, which I have adapted to share in this post.
Remember in our above quote from SOP where it said, “they are to be met and opposed”? Well that is what we are doing here, exposing one glaring false building block that Mr. Bohr attempts to build his castle of truth on. the Seals and judgment scene is very important for us to understand in these last hours of probation.
THE REPORT
Stephen Bohr goes into the Revelation Seals quite in-depth. However, we should always defer to the Scriptures on any “man’s” report, looking closely at them. For the Bible says, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:20).
If one is a writer, teacher, or instructor of Scripture they should always check with Inspiration first prior to writing about a subject , especially Revelation! We read in (rev. 22:18), “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:”
Inspiration said, ““New Light will ever be revealed on the word of God to him who is in living connection with the Sun of Righteousness . . . The diligent seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forthfrom the Word of God . . . Many gems are yet scattered that are to be gathered together to become the property of the remnant people of God. (CSW, p.35)
So we’ve read his report with our “eye’s open” to possibly finding “new light” nuggets of truth supporting inspiration, but instead we found a large gaping hole of falsehood.
I’m afraid Mr. Bohr has interjected “his” interpretation on this important subject. For example let’s look at the subject of the 24 “Elders” in Rev. 4:4. He comes to the conclusion that the 24 Elders around the throne, are not former human beings but rather “They are neither angelic nor human. They must be some other order of being.” If he attempts to teach us on this subject, he concludes he doesn’t know who they are, only who they are not (?).
In addressing an admitted potential problem with his interpretation, his written report says —
A Problem in Translation
Bohr –– “How, then, do we explain Revelation 5:8-10 where the 24 elders (in the KJV and NKJV) appear to be singing the song of their redemption from “every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation?” Let’s take a look at the passage as it appears in the King James Version:
Revelation 5:8-10–
“And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”
Doesn’t this passage explicitly state that the elders were redeemed from the earth, that they were made kings and priests and that they shall rule upon the earth? How then could they be representatives from other worlds?
Before I answer this question I would like to share a word about the King James Version. I personally believe that the KJV is an excellent translation. It is a reverent version which is written in beautiful Victorian English. Having said this however, some people revere the KJV so much that they practically give the impression that it was verbally dictated by God! Anyone attempting to amend or change anything in the King James Version is accused of being an agent of the Jesuits. But the KJV translation is by no means perfect. For example, the much maligned NIV is much more accurate than the KJV when it translates texts that deal with the state of the dead.
The simple fact is that the King James Version has mistranslated Revelation 5:9, 10 and every modern translation has corrected the error.” (The Twenty-Four Elders – Secrets Unsealed–Bohr)
The bold statement is made –”every modern translation has corrected the error.” Let us look at several of the top authoritative translations of the Bible, and many of which he obviously overlooked. We are specifically looking at verse 9.
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
New Living Translation
And they sang a new song with these words: “You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals and open it. For you were slaughtered, and your blood has ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
English Standard Version
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,
Wycliffe Version (oldest English version)
And they sung a new song, and said [saying], Lord our God, thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals of it; for thou were slain, and again-boughtest us to God in thy blood, of each lineage [of all lineage], and tongue, and people, and nation;
New American Standard Bible
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
King James Bible
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
And they sang a new song: You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because You were slaughtered, and You redeemed people for God by Your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation.
International Standard Version
They sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered. With your blood you purchased people for God from every tribe, language, people, and nation.
NET Bible
They were singing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Singing a new hymn of praise, and they were saying, “You are worthy to take the scroll and to loosen its seals, because you were slain and you have redeemed us by your blood to God from every tribe, nation and people,”
Then they sang a new song, “You deserve to take the scroll and open the seals on it, because you were slaughtered. You bought people with your blood to be God’s own. They are from every tribe, language, people, and nation.
And they sang a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and hast redeemed us unto God by thy blood, out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation
King James 2000 Bible
And they sang a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation;
American King James Version
And they sung a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
American Standard Version
And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
Douay-Rheims Bible
And they sung a new canticle, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; because thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God, in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.
Darby Bible Translation
And they sing a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open its seals; because thou hast been slain, and hast redeemed to God, by thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
English Revised Version
And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
Webster’s Bible Translation
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals of it: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and language, and people, and nation;
Weymouth New Testament
And now they sing a new song. “It is fitting,” they say, “that Thou shouldst be the One to take the book And break its seals; Because Thou hast been offered in sacrifice, And hast purchased for God with Thine own blood Some out of every tribe and language and people and nation,
They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,
Young’s Literal Translation and they sing a new song, saying, ‘Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because thou wast slain, and didst redeem us to God in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
e-Sword And they sang a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and open the seals thereof: for thou was slain and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people and nation;
What we see from 22 translations is that 11 of them agree with the original King James version of verse 9. In other words, they concur that the word indicates “us” in that verse. That would obviously mean that the Elders were “redeemed” and could not be angels or other beings apart from human beings who once lived upon the earth.
So we see a serious error that Stephen Bohr makes – “every modern translation has corrected the error.” Error according to who Mr. Bohr?
Let us look at the original Hebrew words ourselves. We can “study to show ourselves approved” by going to the original language.
A God sent site called “e-Sword” is a must for those who wish to be serious students of Scripture. It’s a free download and I have personally found it invaluable in researching Scripture.
Here is the e-Sword translation with the Hebrew translation code numbers:
Rev 5:9 AndG2532 they sungG103 a newG2537 song,G5603 saying,G3004 Thou artG1488 worthyG514 to takeG2983 theG3588 book,G975 andG2532 to openG455 theG3588 sealsG4973 thereof:G848 forG3754 thou wast slain,G4969 andG2532 hast redeemedG59 usG2248 to GodG2316 byG1722 thyG4675 bloodG129 out ofG1537 everyG3956 kindred,G5443 andG2532 tongue,G1100 andG2532 people,G2992 andG2532 nation;G1484
The specific part of verse nine in Hebrew says– “ Hoti (because or for) Sphazo (killed or slaughtered) Kai (and) Agorazo (redeemed or purchased) Hemas (us or we) Theos (Diety or God) En (by or in) Sou (thy or thee) Aima “(blood)…
Note carefully the word “Hemas”. This word is very important to note because apparently some translations make that out to be one of the following –“men, persons, people, some”.
What we have now learned, it escapes us how these ‘translators” can depart from the clear and correct King James translation. No wonder that this version is still the “gold standard” of translations. Ellen White almost exclusively used it. Victor Houteff did the same.
We know that in order to be redeemed one must obviously have been human at some point. For angels cannot be redeemed. Those in heaven have not “fallen”.
In order to support Mr. Bohr’s idea of the 24 Elders being something other than former human beings, he has to join up with the translations that say that the word Hemas means something other than “us” or “we”.
In the widely popular and well researched site “ blueletterbible.org” we found research on the word Hemas and it’s use in other places within the KJV Bible.
|
Transliteration |
Pronunciation |
|
Part of Speech |
Root Word (Etymology) |
|
Outline of Biblical Usage |
|
|
KJV Translation Count — Total: 178x The KJV translates Strongs G2248 in the following manner: us(148x),we(25x),our(2x),us-ward(withG1519)(2x),not tr(1x). |
|
Notice that Hemas is used as “us” 148 times in other Scripture within the Bible. It would be interesting to know about the other 147 times Hemas is used in Bible. How do the other translations translate the word ?
We clearly see that Mr. Bohr has taken liberty to put his ideas and therefore his agenda into Revelation 5:9. This is just one area that is exposed from his report on the Revelation Seals. As time allows we may delve more into his report to look at other aspects. We are bringing this to your attention because in these last days, we must be careful of the teachers who depart from the truth and thus may lead us down “false paths”.
Scripture (Rev. 4 through 6) addresses the very important subject of the judgment scene in heaven of God’s people, can we carelessly follow man’s fables in interpreting such an event?
“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.” (2 Peter 2:1)
“A judgment in session requires a judge, an advocate,a jury, and representatives of those who are to be judged, for they cannot be there (in heaven) in person. There must be books containing the names, and the records of the deeds, of those who are judged; also the time of judgment, and the reward… The following verse depicts the jury: “And round about the throne were four and twenty seats:and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of Gold. (Rev.4:4). The crowns of gold denotes their kingly authority to act upon the case. The white robes show that they are men from earth, redeemed by the blood of Christ.” (SRod, vol. 2, p.194-195)
There is clear evidence that the judgment scene is a “court room” scene. And as such, common and clear reason says that a defendant is heard by a “jury of his peers”. Now tell me, why would this court room have beings of some “other order” as our jury?? This is what Stephen Bohr wants us to believe!
The final conclusion –The 24 Elders are some of those who were raised with Christ.
When one knows the true from the false, we can discern much clearer any deception that attempts to come in. We know that in the real world, there are professional detectors of false money, such as one hundred-dollar bills and it’s their job to spot the counterfeit. But they only know the counterfeit from the original because they are well familiar with the original.
There has, thank God, been an “Elijah message” sent to our church to “restore all things”. Meaning all truth would be restored. The “original” is now within our reach. We sincerely hope you study the prior posts on the interpretation of the Revelation Seals and other prophecies. Once you have done this very closely, you may be like us and say is Hallelujah, let HIS truth shine!
One final note. I personally happen to like Stephen Bohr , just as I like Doug Batchelor. But to be a “lead teacher” in our midst, they must know that the Lord had a “restorer” of truth sent to us. Are these men brushing aside a heaven-sent prophet to straighten our paths and brace ourselves for the “great and dreadful day of the Lord”? Or are they doing as Korah and his gang did, proclaiming to God’s messenger (Moses), that they are equal and can lead the people instead of God’s chosen one?
Once you learn the Elijah message as brought by the prophet who Ellen White said would come after her, you learn truths that just dazzle the soul! We are made to want to know the truth as God gives us and our radar will dial in these truths if we open our mind and hearts to studying these things out. As mentioned , once we see clearly the truth in prophecies, we can be better in detecting any falsehood that may try to side track us.
May we prayerfully ask our Lord to send His gift of the “Spirit of Truth” that we may be guided into all truth.
Godsloveandlaw's Blog 
May 18, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
Excellent explanation brother. When I went to Colombia and shared the message and after the DVD’s and material were scattered throughout the church the leaders decided to call pastor Bohr to come and preach about the 144,000. This pastor speaks perfect Spanish. anyway He preached but gave his personal interpretation on the subject and the problem is that a lot of people believe on his interpretations. But in a way is good, because the people will have to study and make a decision based on the facts and evidences or just keep following man. Anyway they know about the rod, and that’s why they are preaching on these subjects more reason for us to really bring the real truth and the real interpretation to the front. Blessings.
May 18, 2014 at 3:22 pm |
Yeah bro, what is so sad is the fact that these men are well liked and therefore many tend to trust them and their knowledge. But praise the Lord, His servants such as yourself, are out in His vineyard spreading His final message to us, a message with only truth and no falsehood. Yes, His truth shall be brought to the front, amen.
December 4, 2014 at 10:49 am |
How does one account for the fact that in Revelation 4 Jesus and the angelic throng is not there, but He shows up in Revelation 5?
December 5, 2014 at 6:52 am |
I do not read much into that. Perhaps you can illuminate why you bring up this question. What chapter 4 reveals is the judgment room being set up and those who are to participate. Now, the Star (Lamb) as it were is to enter in at the second scene (chapter 5) to dramatically show those round about He is worthy to open the sealed book, which is the history of God’s people in seven sections (seven seals).
December 5, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
Or is it that the the scene was set for the welcoming of Jesus after His triumphs on earth.
December 6, 2014 at 2:02 am
No that would not be the primary purpose of that scene (although the Lamb is worshiped and glorified there for His redemption accomplishment ). If you follow through to Chapter six, you’ll see that the ceremony of scenes in Chap. four and five develop for the reason that the Lamb can now open all the seven seals to reveal the seven sections of God’s people in world history. We have a study on the seven seals if you’d like to see it.
April 7, 2015 at 10:26 am |
Could you please come a little bit on one of his fundamental biblical argument about why one of the twenty elders asked john” who are these in white robe and where did they come from” If he was among? Further what does the spirit of prophecy tells us who they are?
April 8, 2015 at 4:01 am |
My brother, as explained –“The 24 Elders are some of those who were raised with Christ.” So when in Rev.7;13, an elder asks- “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from.?” An elder is asking about a different company than the 24 elders. As Rev. 7:14 says “these are the ones who come out of great tribulation..” In other words, they are the “great multitude”. The ones called out of Babylon, by the 144,000 during the Loud Cry.So the elder asking is not connected with those called out of Babylon, he is among those raised with Christ at His resurrection.
As far as SOP and what it says, we have not found any writings on this matter concerning Rev. 5:8-11. if you have please share. We are using Scripture and SRod for our basis.
May 23, 2016 at 2:24 pm |
Pastor Bohr is not a false teacher. The 24 elders are not those who raised with Christ because they were in heaven before Jesus arrived there (see revelation 4). At the very beginning of Revelation 5 John cries because no one is worthy of opening the sealed book which means Jesus was not there yet. However, the 24 elders had been already there. How can you solve these problems? The last chapter of Desire of ages tells us that when Jesus arrives there were 3 groups waiting for him: God the Father on his throne, Seraphins and Cherubins , representatives of unfallen worlds. Ellen G. White described those three groups :One sitting on his throne, Four living beings and 24 elders with different terminology.
,
May 23, 2016 at 4:05 pm |
The problem is not difficult to solve.First we must understand that the whole scene (beginning with chapter 4 and including chapter 5)is a Judicial one.In the beginning of chapter 4 we read, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
So we must keep in mind that this scene is a judicial scene, proceeding during the judicial activity in heaven, which John was a witness to.
The Revelation is given with the one particular object in view of showing “the things” lying, not behind, but ahead of, John’s time,
to show to God’s people “things which must shortly come to pass.”(Rev. 1:1)
In other words, the events which he was about to be shown were to develop in the future from the time he had the vision. As we know, John was in vision and shown the seals about sixty-five years after the Pentecost.
Further evidence that this judicial proceeding occurred after Christ’s accession we read from SOP —
“Thus the Jewish leaders made their choice. Their decision was registered in the book which John saw in the hand of Him that sat upon the throne, the book which no man could open. In all its vindictiveness this decision will appear before them in the day when this book is unsealed by the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.”–Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 294.
The above quoted passage shows that this book contains the names and record of those who profess to be the people of God.
So the idea that Christ is not there yet, and presumably still on earth or wherever is false. Therefore the accession also brought forth the 24 elders, the first fruits of the dead who logically were in the judgment scene as jury.
As for the Desire of Ages quote, please give that reference so we can comment on that.
February 17, 2019 at 10:44 pm |
Why the elders cannot be human:
• First, the elders were already present in the Father’s heavenly throne room before Jesus arrived so they cannot be those who resurrected with Him for in DA 833-835 these FOLLOW Jesus into the throne room.
• Second, this song was sung by both the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders (Revelation 4:8). It is absolutely clear that the four living creatures (which we will shortly identify as seraphim) were not redeemed from among men and will not reign upon the earth.
• Finally, the same group who were redeemed by the Lamb from every nation, tribe, tongue and people is distinguished from the elder who asked about their identity (Revelation 7:9, 11, 12)
The Elders in the Rest of Revelation
• Revelation 5:12, 13 points to a future celebration in heaven when the redeemed will be present because every creature on earth was not present there when the song was first sung.
• The 24 elders are mentioned in four other passages in the book of Revelation. In each of these, with the exception of 11:16, the redeemed are present.
• Revelation 7:13: The elders in the context of future victory (throne [7:9], Lamb [7:9], four living creatures [7:11], 24 elders [7:11], angels [7:11] the redeemed [7:9].
• Revelation 11:16: The elders in the context of future victory (Lord [11:15], Christ [11:15], elders [11:16], angelic hosts [11:15]).
• Revelation 14:3: The elders in the context of future victory (throne [14:3], Lamb [14:1], four living creatures [14:3], 24 elders [14:3], 144, 000 redeemed from the earth [14:1]).
• Revelation 19:1, 2: The elders in the context of future victory (throne [19:4], Christ [Lamb [19:9], four living creatures [19:4], 24 elders [19:4], angels [19:1], multitude of the redeemed [19:6]).
To say otherwise is to teach error!
February 18, 2019 at 2:06 am |
Thanks Sandra for your ideas. I will carefully review them and respond soon.
February 18, 2019 at 4:31 am |
Why the elder must be human —
Again, read this article closely. For it centers on a plain undeniable fact.The fact that they cry out “Thou has redeemed US..” means that never can a righteous unfallen being be — redeemed. Rather ONLY fallen beings–humans , can say that. The article clearly shows this case. Scripture shows this unless you want to be like Bohr and deny the true translation.
So, bottom line if they can only be redeemed beings then I cannot say, like you, that they are non-fallen beings.All your points cannot eliminate the strong main point addressed in the article.
January 24, 2020 at 9:37 pm |
Please note:
teachers of false hood -> teachers of falsehood
fore-mentioned -> forementioned
but I listening -> but I am listening
castle of truth on-> extra space
Seals and judgement scene is very important -> …are very important
‘translators” -> “translators”
and advocate,a jury-> missing space
and say is -> and say:
Stephen Bohr , -> extra space
by the prophet who Ellen White -> by the prophet, who Ellen White
As mentioned ,-> extra space
side track us-> sidetrack us