Many of us are aware that the best magicians are those who have us watching the wrong hand. They attempt to have us focus on something that allows us to be tricked. We miss the real deal, the right action.
Last Sabbath I had time to watch Walter Veith’s video called “Decoding the book of Daniel/ Daniel Chapter 2/ Walter Veith” on YouTube. Let me begin by saying that I personally have always liked Walter. His style is of the typical brilliant class professor. The one who has much intelligence and charm thrown in as well.
I came to know about him back in 2009. I was given a DVD called “From Evolutionist to Creationist”. At that time I was beginning my SDA walk, and I was very impressed with his story. It took courage to change his views while being a high level Evolutionist.
Walter has a very large following, particularly among the Seventh-day Adventist community. His teachings are regarded as high level and accurate for the most part. Although there are some leaders among the SDA that feel his conspiracy theories (ie. Jesuit knowledge and world conspiracies) go too far from mainstream SDA teachings.
As mentioned he has that professor mentality and can really break down prophecies and other teachings as well. No wonder he is highly followed and relied upon by many SDA. His evolutionist professorship has refined his approach.
But since I have been fortunate enough to be “guided into all Truth” (John 16:13) , the Spirit of Truth has erected the great “truth detector” in my life. After endeavoring to keep walking up the truth stair steps , and not content to stay on a certain level, I became aware of the true meaning of Daniel 2.
The Lord knew we as SDA would want truth specifically meant for us in the last days of our SDA probation. Therefore, looking down to our time He said–
“Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and dreadful day of the Lord.”(Mal. 4:5)
This prophet, we as present truth believers know was Victor T. Houteff. Brother Houteff gave us the correct interpretation of Daniel 2. Once we study and know this understanding from the Lord’s Elijah, we can then be in a position to know counterfeits. Just like the professional currency detectors, who are able to distinguish the false from the true, based on their knowledge of the true, we can know error in prophecies simply because we can see all the holes, all the non-arranged pieces of the puzzle.
So with this foundation I sat back and decided to watch the whole video, all 1 hour and 24 minutes of it. I knew that I was likely to find error because I know Walter, as far as I know has not accepted the teachings of our Lord’s prophet, just like the masses of our SDA church. But I wanted to compare what one of the popular teachers of our time was doing with what God’s word says.
Let us now look at what Mr. Veith proposes as truth about Daniel 2.
He begins by showing a “Dictionary of prophetic terms”. This is to help to decipher the vision. However the first mis-step I notice is that he leaves out the meaning of the “mountain”. Remember when we made reference to “the best magicians are those who have us watching the wrong hand”? So he starts out showing the Biblical meaning of — Trumpet, Rock, Zion, Woman, etc. yet fails to address Daniel’s “mountain” understanding. The “stone” comes from the mountain (not the sky) , so we need to know what the mountain symbolizes.
He begins with a good historical breakdown of Daniel 2:1-25. There is some history on who the Chaldeans were and the backdrop leading up to Daniel coming to the king to give the interpretation.
Then he begins to explain what Daniel said he saw to the king, namely the statue. I would like you to really focus in here at what he does next. After describing the statue, Walter says, “then he (Daniel) saw a rock hurtled towards earth, strike the statute and destroy it and it struck at the feet and nowhere else.”
“So who is this rock? Obviously if it is not a human intervention it’s a divine intervention.. it IS (his emphasis) the second coming of Christ.”
So let us stop here. First we must ask why Walter jumps to the conclusion that the stone is Christ? No point of reference is given, just his blanket statement. Let us quote Daniel–
“For as much as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.” (Dan. 2:45)
Now how can Mr. Veith proceed to teach his theories without explaining to us what the mountain symbolizes? After all the stone comes from it. If the stone “rock” is Jesus, it is symbolic, then the rest of the vision must have a symbolic meaning as well and be understood. Otherwise it is only guesswork.
Mr. Veith goes on to describe the reason for the breaking up the statute, without ever coming back to explain what the mountain symbolizes. It is conveniently ignored. Mis-step number 2.
This point is very important because we can establish just who the stone represents when we know from where it came from. In order to be Jesus the vision should show that the stone comes from the sky (heaven) yes? But it does not, it shows it comes from the mountain , which is on earth.
The Word shows us the meaning of the mountain.
“O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.” (Daniel 9:16)
“And while I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;”(Daniel 9:20)
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.” (Isaiah 2:2-3)
“But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.” (Micah 4:1)
“Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.” (Zech. 8:3)
Further references are found in Isaiah 56:7, 51:16, Jer. 51:25.
So we see that the term “mountain” is used symbolically to describe God’s people, his church.So logically the vision must be understood in showing that the stone comes from the mountain, God’s people/church. Walter pays no attention to this very important detail and thus follows a rabbit trail into the false meaning of the vision. This is exactly why we needed a “restorer of all things” sent to us!
A little past the half way point Walter Veith establishes again that he views the stone as Christ. “The next event to come… Christ coming in glory. The stone that will bring an end to all the earthly kingdoms.”
The third major mis-step occurs near the end of the presentation. Quoting Daniel 2:44, he leaves out a very important part of the verse, “… the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed.”
The reason we need to point these errors out is because all of these mistakes are detrimental to the true intended interpretation of the vision. God’s lesson that was meant for us, is gutted by his lack of knowledge, his private interpretations.
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” (2 Peter 1″20)
Going back to verse 44 we read it in full–
“And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” (Daniel 2:44)
We see that DURING “in” the days of “these kings”, the 10 toe kings of the feet (our time), shall God set up His kingdom. You see Mr. Veith cannot show that part of verse 44 because to really dwell upon it one cannot promote his private agenda that the vision is describing Christ at the second coming as commonly taught among SDA leaders. So naturally he leaves that out to quash any thoughts opposite of his.
While we can’t go into all the many points of the vision now, we can point out a few that are noteworthy. Aside from the long time erroneous interpretation of the stone being Christ, we know that this cannot be so for another solid reason.
Once the stone strikes and destroys the image, the kingdoms symbolically, then the stone STAYS on the earth , fills it, and becomes a “great mountain”. When Christ comes at the second coming, His feet do not touch the earth, neither does He “fill the whole earth”. He draws all the saints living and dead up to Him and they are taken to heaven. The earth is then destroyed, dark and void, far from a great mountain, a great people on earth.
But when we realize that the stone is cut out without hands from the mountain, we know that a divine intervention is made and a portion of God’s people are separated from the large mountain of God–His church. Who could this small portion be? Yes, it is the 144,000! The Ezekiel 9 church judgment is the “cut out of the mountain without hands” part .
In other words, God performs this separation at the beginning of the judgment for the living in God’s house ( 1 Peter 4:17). We the SDA are His last church (7th of Rev. chapter 3) and this dream was meant for the us in the “latter days” as Daniel pointed out to the king. All should be aware the true interpretation is now available to all those who seek truth.
The 144,000 then go out and give the Loud Cry with great power and thus the earth “kingdoms” are destroyed symbolically. No wars, but it’s God’s power through His servants that destroys.
“Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms; And with thee will I break in pieces the horse and his rider; and with thee will I break in pieces the chariot and his rider; With thee also will I break in pieces man and woman; and with thee will I break in pieces old and young; and with thee will I break in pieces the young man and the maid;
I will also break in pieces with thee the shepherd and his flock; and with thee will I break in pieces the husbandman and his yoke of oxen; and with thee will I break in pieces captains and rulers. And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. “(Jer. 51:20-24)
The great multitude are called out of Babylon (false religions) and brought into the kingdom center–Israel. The pre-millennial kingdom is then begun as a final witness to the dying world. Then truly it will be said that the stone “became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.”
You see, the Lord wants to finally come on the stage and He wants to do it in front of the heathen as a testimony of His glory and power. Inspiration through the prophet Haggai declared–
“And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen.” (Hag. 2:22)
When Mr. Veith and others give their false interpretation of His prophecy of Daniel 2, they deny His plans, His final battle. The battle that He wins and all will see it play out–The stone destroying and then becomes a great mountain.
Let us be clear here, we are not saying that Walter Veith is purposely being deceptive. What we are saying is that he is clearly showing that he has not accepted the Lord’s Elijah message, of which was given the true interpretation of Daniel 2 , among many other prophecies. And as he is a leading teacher, we strongly warn him and all who follow him and his teachings to come over to the Lord’s side–the Truth.
“Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.” (James 3:1)
Walter closes his video with —
“We need to study these prophecies carefully and unfold them and unravel them, to see the final nuances.”
“I make a vow to you if I speak anything that is contrary to the word of God–leave… Test every word I say..if you can show me that I am wrong, I’ll change I promise.”
Ok Walter, we take up your challenge. Read this post and see that you have not dealt fully nor truthful in your teaching of Daniel 2. Your lesson here is the general standard teaching of long ago within the SDA church. However that does not necessarily make it right nor truthful.
In closing, our Lord wants us to know His true plans by way of His prophecies and not some false human interpretations. Soon His mighty army will go to work upon the world and be victorious (the stone destroying the image). This is for the purpose of the world seeing God’s real glory through His servants.
“We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn.” (Selected Messages, vol. 1, p.37)
“There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation.” (Counsels to Writers and Editors, p.35)
“The wise shall understand” (verse 10), was spoken of the visions of Daniel that were to be unsealed in the latter days..” (PK, p.547-548)
For the Elijah study outline of Daniel 2, click here http://www.shepherds-rod-message.org/outlines/dan_2.pdf
Godsloveandlaw's Blog 
October 19, 2015 at 2:14 pm |
Lets pray that the Lord may touch his heart with the truth of the Elijah message.
October 19, 2015 at 3:17 pm |
Amen bro, time is short, may he soon realize the truth before it’s too late. I am going to try and write him via his organization “Amazing Discoveries” and see if I can get him this post as answer to his challenge.
October 30, 2015 at 10:53 am |
Mr. Houteff was the one giving a private interpretation of Daniel 2.
October 30, 2015 at 2:25 pm |
Tengoku1, you know it is easy to sit back and make a blanket statement as you have. The REAL truth seekers back it up with specific reasons, not just accusations that appear private opinions.For starters, explain what is wrong with the above post, where is it not correct?
May 28, 2016 at 5:51 am |
To
Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
AS per KJV
Daniel does not say where the stone came from. But he does say, It became a mountain and filled the whole world.
In reading this blog, I came to the first mistake by this writer and need go no farther. Walter Veith may be SLIGHTLY incorrect in his words SOMETIMES, but his message IS correct. GOD first, center and last for ALL of us.
Tony Gummer
May 28, 2016 at 3:31 pm |
Brother, do you realize you are falsifying the Word of God and not continuing to read further in Daniel? You say, “Daniel does not say where the stone came from.” Ofcourse he does, let us read–
“Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands…”(Dan.2:45)
The main thrust of this prophecy can only be understood if we correctly identify what these symbols mean, then and then only will will have the correct interpretation.Mr. Veith does not do that but goes along with the old SDA idea that the stone is Christ, which cannot be. Neither does the Spirit of Prophecy ever say the stone is Christ. Awake brother and get over to the side of Truth.
July 5, 2018 at 9:50 pm |
Brother, I notice that you quote from Ezekiel 9, but not from Ezekiel 28, where Ezekiel describes heaven as a mountain. I hope that’s an oops, just a careless oversight, not a deliberate one.
July 5, 2018 at 10:38 pm |
Since there are two Jerusalems described as a mountain, you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Daniel was referring to the old one, not the new one. And simply quoting Daniel 9:16 does not do that.
July 6, 2018 at 6:32 am |
Provide an explanation of all the symbolism and lesson of Dan. 2:34-45 , then we’ll talk. Keep in mind that we must first and foremost stick with the original author’s book (in this case Daniel)) to know more certainly what a symbolism means. Not jump over to another book, drag a meaning that we like and put it over to author’s book of the Scriptures.
June 22, 2019 at 9:44 pm |
The first inconsistency that I saw with traditional interpretation even before reading the Rod was “and in the days of these kings”. We were told that Jesus establishes his kingdom after a thousand years of us being in heaven, so that was a first clue that something is not right with the interpretation, but until you have somebody presenting a better explanation you are lost in private interpretations.
June 26, 2019 at 5:39 am |
That was great that the Lord gives you good discernment. It’s amazing how if one really wants to know the Truth He will not fail to “guide us into all truth” (John 16:13).