The Dad is Stumped (Part 2 of 2)

Man thinking

Last week we showed the first part of the study, and so far we see that Art has been quite perplexed as to his son’s revealing Scriptures and SOP.

Johnny: Do you remember where we showed that the Lord is to have a conquering  church?

Art: Yes, that was from our prophetess.

Johnny: But how can this be Dad, when right now we have our own beloved church allowing abortions upon demand ,and people with non-Biblical perverted lifestyles  ministering in our churches, for example?

Art: Son, we are still sinful people and the Lord is to work upon us as we walk through our Christian experience.

Johnny: That’s true Dad, but the word says there will be a church purification before the Loud Cry.

Art: I never heard of such a thing show me where you get that? My understanding is that there will be a testing time, the Sunday law, and that will cause the weak in faith to depart the church and thus this produces a solid deep faith church, willing to stand for Christ and His word.

Johnny: There is way too much to address all of the evidence now but I will show you a few.

“The third angel’s message is to lighten the earth with its glory; but only those who have withstood temptation in the strength of the Mighty One will be permitted to act a part in proclaiming it when it shall have swelled into the loud cry.” (Review and Herald, Nov. 19,1908)

“The church may appear as about to fall, but it dies not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.” (2 Selected Messages , p.380)

“God has promised that where the shepherds are not true He will take charge of the flock Himself. God has never made the flock wholly dependent upon human instrumentalities. But the days of purification of the church are hastening on apace. God will have a people pure and true. In the mighty sifting soon to take place we shall be better able to measure the strength of Israel. The signs reveal that the time is near when the Lord will manifest that His fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor.”(Testimonies, vol. 5, p.80)

“The Lord will work to purify His church. I tell you in truth, the Lord is about to turn and overturn in the institutions called by His name.” (Testimonies to Ministers, p.372-373)

The Scriptures also show it —

“Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.” (Nahum 1:15)

 “Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.” (Isaiah 52:1)

“But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions. And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken.” (Obadiah 1:17)

Art: Ok son you are presenting much that is quite different from what we as SDA have learned or teach , now tell me how you found all this?

Johnny: Ok, let’s turn to Malachi chapter 4 verses 5 and 6. It reads-

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. “

In 1929 a man taught in  our church, in the Sabbath school lessons in Los Angeles. His name was Victor Houteff. This is how I came across all this. He has some publications called the Shepherd’s Rod.

Art: Victor who?

Johnny: Houteff, he is believed by some to be the prophesied Elijah to come that the Lord promised He would bring to His people.

Art: No son, we are told by our prophetess that we as faithful workers in these last days are the prophesied Elijah to come. Here it is–
“There is constant need of earnest, decided messages of warning. God will have men who are true to duty. At the right time He sends His faithful messengers to do a work similar to that of Elijah.” (Testimonies, vol. 5, p.254)

Johnny: Dad, there is something better, read this —

“Prophecy must be fulfilled. The Lord says: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and when he appears, men may say: “You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how to teach your message.”(Testimonies to Ministers, p.475)

But I must tell you that the first two original publications of the Testimonies to Minsters  this quote was left alone. But in 1962, the General Conference added an asterisk to it saying that Ellen White was talking of herself as the Elijah to come. It was after Victor Houteff died and the SDA church was dealing with an underground movement saying that his writings were inspired and should be followed. So to quiet the speculation they published a 1962 version of the book and added the asterisk telling people to not take her words as they appear.

In other words Dad, they were saying that when she said “somebody is to come” she was saying it was herself who had already came. And when she said “when he appears” she meant “when she appears”. It’s pretty ridiculous Dad.

Art: Ok , let’s recap son. First, this Victor guy taught we are to go into the land of Israel after the church purification for the purpose of what?

Johnny: The Loud cry. You see Dad, the Lord cannot pour out His Spirit upon a mixed group, converted and unconverted. No where in the Bible has He ever done such a thing. Do you remember when the Israelites were defeated in the land of Ai, after their great victory in Jericho?

Art: Yes

Johnny: Well the people did not have God’s Spirit with them because of one man, just one sinner named Achan. God told them that He would abandon them if that one sinner was not removed. So Joshua discovered who it was that had stolen some items from their prior victory in Jericho. The Lord had Achan and his family along with all their possessions stoned and buried right in the desert.

According to Victor this was a type of the church  purification, because in order to get to the kingdom (Israel) the Lord had to do a purification of  any sinner in the midst. So the anti-type is us today and the upcoming purification.

Art: Well that all makes sense but does the Scriptures say anything more concrete about this purification?

Johnny: Yes it does, In two places we see really good revelations of it. Both were brought to our attention and taught by Victor , let’s read–

“Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? This that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?

I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

I looked, and there was no one to help, And I was astonished and there was no one to uphold; So My own arm brought salvation to Me, And My wrath upheld Me. And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.” (Isaiah 63:1-6)

Johnny: His garments are stained red because of the unfortunate dreadful church work the “Mighty to save” One has to do.

(At this point Art is sitting up straight marking every word Johnny says.)

Johnny: And this is perhaps the best one in all the Bible–

“For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow,to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.” (Isaiah 66:15-20)

Johnny: Do you see that after this slaying by the Lord there are those who escape and go to all the world to proclaim the Lord’s glory and then bring in brothers and sisters from around the world, into a clean vessel, meaning they will worship the Lord in a clean church? Never before has this happened in history Dad, it is yet future.

Art: My Son, why haven’t we as SDA known about all this? What are we doing? I never knew all this was in the Bible and SOP!

Johnny: It’s because of our refusal to diligently study the Scriptures and SOP for  ourselves  Dad. SOP nails it with this one —
“But beware of rejecting that which is truth. The great danger with our people has been that of depending upon men and making flesh their arm. Those who have not been in the habit of searching the Bible for themselves, or weighing evidence, have confidence in the leading men and accept the decisions they make; and thus many will reject the very messages God sends to His people, if these leading brethren do not accept them. ” (Testimonies to Minsters, p.106-107)

Johnny: Too many of us are “rich and increased with goods” as the Scriptures say. We think we know all the truth when we are””Blind and naked” as the Lord said. The General Conference knew all about Victor’s writings and decided to make efforts to spread falsehood about Victor and his work. Soon the SDA was hearing how he was bad and not teaching truth. But remember when SOP said–

Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and when he appears, men may say: “You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how to teach your message.”(Testimonies to Ministers, p.475)

Johnny: The Lord through Ellen White saw that when the Elijah comes he would be told he teaches falsely and they , the SDA church leaders and General Conference, will tell the people what is truth not this man who many think is the Elijah.

In fact, Victor said this about it–

“..I would remind you, Brethren, that no prophet of God has ever been welcomed by the church.  On the contrary, each in his time was rejected, abused, and most of them were martyred by the ones to whom they were sent — the very ones who were supposed to be serving God!  Indeed, the Lord Himself paid the same price.  For this very reason we must remember that when the last prophet comes he will have the greatest opposition to meet, for Satan well knows that if he loses now, he loses forever. 

What makes Elijah’s work especially hard is that Christendom has long been drilled in the idea that no prophet is to come, that there is no necessity for one, that it has enough revealed Truth to carry it inside the Pearly Gates.

It is therefore only to be expected that the predicted Elijah will be denounced as a false prophet, perhaps even as the anti-Christ, offshoot, or what not.” (General Conference Special, p.6-7)

Art: Why do you think they wanted to hush him up?

Johnny: It was because he was calling out their sins. He was showing the people how God, through the Scriptures and SOP,  was soon not going to tolerate the people who had great light yet continued in their sins. Reformations such as dress, eating, worship, medical, schools, Sabbath keeping , etc were all addressed in his writings and the GC knew that should this reformation call take hold the leaders and their own growing structure would be forced to change everything. They had already began to retreat towards Egypt and had no intention of halting this backward direction.

Their medical institutions and schools were fast conforming to worldly standards, and just as the Romans in Constantine’s day decided to appease the worldly masses and lower their standards to gain more attendance to their churches, so too the SDA leaders. The Lord’s strict word became loosely followed. Sin no longer meant sin but a human weakness that we couldn’t really overcome in this life.

Victor called all this out. He found new interpretations of Scripture that had never been revealed. The true understanding of Daniel 2, Hosea 1 and 2, Ezekiel 1 and 2, and more, Isaiah and Jeremiah and the list goes on and on. But the main thing Dad, as the type did (original Elijah) his message was of warning that the Lord is about to come unexpectedly  and shall surprise the hypocrites and non-converted. Thus the church will be as SOP puts it, Fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners”

Art: This truly is enlightening son. So how long have you been studying these writings?

Johnny: For a little over a year. What I did Dad, is I checked it all with Scripture. The main test was –“To the Law and to the testimony.” (Isaiah 8:20)  I checked if he taught correctly about all the Ten Commandments, and then I checked if he taught what the prophets taught as well, including our prophetess Ellen White.

Art: Ok son, this has been a good study, I will make you a promise. I will study what you have and if it’s truth your Dad will be on board, deal?

Johnny: Deal!

*********************************************

The above story, although a allegory, is intended to make us think. The truth is something we as SDA are truly in need of today. The Lord knew we would need more truth and a better understanding of prophecy, otherwise he would never have promised a prophet, Elijah, to come and bring the Lord’s last message to us. Just as Art showed that despite his prior beliefs, when new light was presented to him, he was willing to look, listen and move upon it. My prayer is that all who read this blog will be like Art. You’ll not regret it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 Responses to “The Dad is Stumped (Part 2 of 2)”

  1. Kevin Says:

    Nice conversation Rob. Looking forward to the next. May God bless you mightiliy

  2. godsloveandlaw Says:

    We may do an encore someday if the Lord leads. May the Lord keep guiding you brother Kevin.

  3. Lee Mashebe Says:

    Indeed nice lesson we have got from this study, it clearly shows that many of our brethren are ignorant they don’t understand and know what is taught in Present Truth Messages like Art. May God continue Blessing you Brethren.

  4. godsloveandlaw Says:

    True brother Lee, let us keeping trying though, as our brethren need us to continue to try and help, come what may.

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